Reacties/ Expats, Nederlanders en antibiotica printlink

  • door: Eva Teuling
    over: chemie, biologie, medisch
    op: 2 april 2012
  • De Nederlandse huisarts geeft niet snel antibiotica mee. Lastig, vinden expats.
  • Maar antibiotica-resistentie is daardoor bij ons ongekend laag; in Griekenland heb je 50 procent kans op de MRSA-bacterie.

Robert Klep (2 april 2012, 09:35)

Zijn je collega's gewoon niet bekend met het fenomeen "multi-resistente bacterie" en de problemen die dat oplevert, of is het meer een kop-in-het-zand houding die ze aannemen?

Eva Teuling (2 april 2012, 23:02)

Aangezien ik op een universitair medisch ziekenhuis werk, en de meesta van mijn collega's arts, bioloog of iets dergelijks zijn, zullen ze bacterie-resistentie zeker wel kennen. Maar in Nederland nemen we dat dus blijkbaar een flink stuk serieuzer...

J Fritsch (8 april 2012, 13:25)

I am not quite sure what the point of this article is. Is the point that when we all pretend that antibiotics do not exist and only only only use them before we almost die (and then hope for a wonder almost of course) that antibiotics would help forever? Well, I believe not.

Resistencies are a field of ongoing research and it is cutting things somewhat short to assume that if we live like 100 years ago, put ourselves through pain and risk that then we contribute to a better medical world and by the way (as a pleasant side effect) keep the cost of the local health system low.

I think if the author is really concerned she should go back to her government and ask them to put more money into research. Something that points into the future rather than into the past.

There are many more aspects to it. First of all that apparently not all findings/statistics in Holland confirm the claims made in the article. E.g. esp. since 2010 we constantly read in the news that in Holland they have an abnormal high "Babysterfte" and that (a) the dutch Parliament has been busy with it and (b) they now invest heavily into research to get this under control. - So I simply think already mentioning the " Nederlandse manier van befallen" as an example that the system works well is very apparently wrong.

The AD wrote in 2010 "De huidige richtlijnen en technieken om het risico [of birth] in te schatten schieten kennelijk tekort.". I think this is probably the case for antibiotics as well. Maybe the Dutch medical systems should put more effort into learning from their neighbors in many aspects, - even if this means that cost will increase.

Robert Klep (9 april 2012, 09:26)

The point of the article as I read it is: stop using antibiotics to cure illnesses which can be cured by just staying in bed a few days. You should rely on the resilience of your body (provided that you have a decent general health) to battle something as simple as a common (notice the word "common" there) cold.

Antimicrobial resistence is an actual health thread (the WHO says to itself, see http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs194/en/), and prescribing antibiotics for something your body can fight off itself is both useless and adds to the chances of building up resistence in microbes.

As for your comments on "babysterfte": the article doesn't claim or even suggest that "de Nederlandse manier van bevallen" works well.

J Fritsch (10 april 2012, 08:53)

@Robert Klep, Just of the future avoid to link observations to ethnic groups or combinations of such without having e.g. hard demographic evidence. Also try to think critical, event if it means questioning the systems and results of risk assessments that are done within your own system. Critical thinking is a key skill in "correct" science.

Eva Teuling (10 april 2012, 12:14)

I agree with Robert, I don't pretend to give the best solution to a world-wide problem. If I had that, I would be famous. I am just making an observation among expats in the Netherlands and I write about that. And I give my personal opinion.

And also I do not give any thoughts on the best way of giving birth. As I have no experience, I don't think I can say anyting about it, except for what I hear and observe from others.

Robert Klep (10 april 2012, 13:36)

@J Fritsch: "expats" aren't an ethnic group. Eva is basing her observations on her own experiences with colleagues. The hard evidence mentioned in the article is based on actual science fact, and Eva is providing hyperlinks to it.

If you're interested in a discussion about the risks of childbirth in the Dutch system, you're welcome to write your own article about it and publish it on this website.

J Fritsch (11 april 2012, 16:47)

In the NRC NEXT from today (11 April) is a two page article examining the dutch health system and the attitudes in it. Interesting read. Also there is one box (that overlaps my own observations) that makes the point that a lot of Nederlanders go to Germany or Belgium for medical treatment but never the other way around. - I wonder why this might be :D

Robert Klep (11 april 2012, 18:31)

@J Fritsch: I suggest you find out why that might be, and write an article about it (based on hard demographic evidence, obviously) for SYNC.nl :-)

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